Typical Sports Guy:
Months ago I asked who's season were you most concerned about: skins or titans.
Today I ask what was more embarrassing: skins last night or Tennessee getting 59pts scored on them?
I've hung my head in shame; skins were terrible. See you next season.
Cousin Vin:
Man, I completely forgot this game was played.
Look at it the college football way: you beat Oakland 34-13 last week. And Oakland beat Denver 20-19 on Sunday. Denver beat New York on Thanksgiving. So, technically, the 'Skins are way better than the Giants. It's science.
Typical Sports Guy:
What's more disappointing: skins season or giants season?
Me:
Skins.
Giants started off 5-0 and built high expectations which undoubtedly contributes to great disappointment, but the Skins are a laughing stock. They are routinely called a "high school" team with a high school coach by most everyone, and stoop to a new low each week, and probably most importantly fooled people like you and my Cousin Vin. They roped you two in...hard.
I told you guys that they were ummm...not Great, but you guys pointed to their nail biting wins over Cleveland and St. Louis as a clear indicator that they are better than the winless Titans whereas I pointed to them having one of the statistically easiest schedules this year and in the history of the league. Simply put, they had wins and my home state Titans did not. Nevermind, they played a much much tougher she-duel. You guys used win-loss as the only barometer of how good a team is.
How do you two reconcile everyone saying the two teams in both conferences with the best records are widely thought to not be the favorites to win the SuperBowl in their respective conferences and are said to not be as good as other teams with worse records? All, that being said, NO ONE knows who will win, but we kinda know who won't.
I have 318 unread emails. I missed 2.7 days. Oh dear!
Cousin Vin:
Any time your team quits and goes on to lose by 8 (yes, 8!) touchdowns, you're in worse shape. At the point the conversation was held, the Skins where the better team. You can't deal in absolutes, man. What sort of PROFESSIONAL team goes out and loses by 59. Jacksonville State doesn't even lose by 59.
It's not just win-loss, but how much effort was put into the games. Obviously none was put forth by the Titans in the NE game and a shake up was necessary, or they may have continued down that path. But they did change things, so we'll never know.
Me:
Anytime, you hire a coach to be an offensive coordinator and then a month later promote him to head coach , you have a problem. Then, 6 games into the season with a 2-4 record, when the same head coach is stripped of offensive play calling duties in favor of a guy, Sherm Lewis, that was last seen working in a bingo hall, you have problems or as you say "are in worse shape." (Btw, nice stat yesterday that detailed that the Redskins are the 3rd lowest scoring offense of the decade..."worse shape" ladies and gentlemen.
Anytime, you hire a coach that doesn't know the team colors of his new (job, employer, team), you have a problem, or as you say "are in worse shape."
Anytime, you have you have the easiest schedule in the league, so easy that it's a record and unprecedented to start a season playing in 5 consecutive weeks…winless teams. And barely beat Cleveland and St. Louis, two teams that will have top 4 draft picks, you are in "worse shape."
Losing to the Patriots is not THAT bad. Losing by such a large margin is disheartening (it may be possible that terrible defeat was an outlier. that is that 1 in 100 times that that actually happened), but I’m not so sure it is as bad as barely winning with such an easy schedule and being in such turmoil.
Cousin Vin, says its not just win-loss and obviously no effort was put forth in the Titans losing to the Pats.
Titans just lost at home 42-17 last week in a must win game to have a chance at the playoffs. Was effort put forth then? Did the Giants put forth effort yesterday in a complete and utter beatdown 41-9 in another must win game?
Cousin Vin, may also assert that Tampa Bay is better than NO because they infact won their only matchup, or that because the Skins lost by 3 in OT to the Saints, they are better than many other teams because they put forth "effort." After all, most teams wouldn't play the Saints that well.
The point is, there is no truly right answer, but there is significantly more evidence suggesting that the Titans are better and were "in better shape" at THAT time. You are entrenched in your argument my man.
Fight it!
Typical Sports Guy:
no one is talking about TEN still; more disappointing season: giants or skins.
good answer, wrong question. get back to work and stop writing novels. yes, novels...this all seems speculative and fictitious.
Cousin Vin
Extrapolations on things I "may" say? False, false, false.
The Titans stopped playing competitively against the Pats. They lost to the Chargers but also scored a 4th quarter TD and kept driving even when the game was far from competitive. The Giants had drives deep into Carolina territory and even scoring chances even though they were down 32 points. Which proves my point, the Titans quit.
Giants are disappointing, even though their problems would be solved w/a good WR. Everyone who isn't from DC knows the Skins are garbage. You guys need to stop falling for them every year. Though in week 6, their prospects shone brighter than the Titans.
Me
How is your point proven that the Titans quit against the Pats, but NYG didn't quit?
100% you didn't see any of this game and are basing your assertion that they quit off of a box score or probably most notably what the "typical sports guy or media" said or a highlight or two. Tell me about their drives...
That game, the Titans were down 10-0 after the first, and then the Pats blew up in the 2nd quarter. In the second quarter, the Titans had drives that ended in turnovers and punts. I'll insert a great metaphor here, "when it rains it pours" It's like when you play EA Sports NCAA football. Once you get 1 turnover you are that much likely to get another and another and another. Then you throw the controller in disgust and scream.
Even though Chris Johnson had 128 yards rushing (he could have not quit and gone for 200 yards), the passing game was putrid AT BEST. When, you are down, you have to pass, and when you can't pass when it is a necessity, bad things happen in bunches. “It’s quicksand”.-The replacements Name 2 Titans WRs. Lendale White and Chris Johnson don't count.....................................
Lastly, as crazy as this may sound, the defense was definitely not as bad as the offense despite giving up 12 billion points. The Pats won time of possession 2:1 (40 minutes to 20 minutes) and the defense was on the field all day long.
Cousin Vin:
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.
Me:
Ha.
Today, Cousin Vin, you are anti-logic. You are making a strong statement about a game that you didn't see. You will and would never admit that just maybe, maybe you reacted too quickly and possibly recklessly.
I'm objecting to the statements that teams quit and more importantly the visceral reaction that you and the typical sports guy has regarding solely the final score while overlooking the nuance and qualitative aspects of sports. Maybe, they stopped playing as hard as they could, but maybe they didn't. At my crib Friday, I asked how hard what you play if you were clearly outmatched by the other side, and you said, you'd play even harder. You are asserting that you would play harder and these highly competitive professionals.
I’m not making excuses. I am challenging the conventional wisdom and am actually THINKING.
Cousin Vin:
It's very easy to assume what I think. I'd reply with my own tome, but am currently getting crushed by work.
Quickly: the Pats blew up in the second quarter, is it impossible the Titans would take your own answer to your own question and pack it in? In the snow already down 45 at HALF. Why not pack it in?
And if they're not packing it in, the Titans must absolutely suck. Either in execution or scheming or both. To lose by 8 touchdowns while giving max effort? Even if the 'Skins played 5 winless teams, they didn't get rocked by anything close to that. By your logic, then, The Titans would've been worse at the time than Washington. They let Brady's backup lead scoring drives.
Don't think I don't know what I'm talking about, I have too much work to get deep into this.
Me:
There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Michael Jordan shoots 3-26. He quit. He didn't have one of the worst games of his career. He quit!
Me: But, he was playing a good opponent.
Cousin Vin: So. He quit
Me: Could his historically poor performance be an outlier? or just a terrible game?
Cousin Vin: No, he quit.
Me: I watched almost all of the game. Did you?
Cousin Vin: No. I did not watch any of it. He quit.
Me: While I was watching he seemed to be trying really hard, and just was having one of those days. He couldn't buy a basket.
Cousin Vin: He quit.
Me: You said, you wouldn't quit if you were outmatched in a game and you'd try harder.
Cousin Vin: It's different. I wouldn't quit. Jordan, the professional athlete, would. It's so reasonable. He's rich. I'm not. He doesn't have a competitive side.
Cousin Vin: If Tony Kukoc had played the same opponent, he wouldn't have played as poorly.
Me: Yeah. You are probably right, but neither would Jordan.
Cousin Vin: That's right because JORDAN QUIT! He won't quit the next time...
Cousin Vin: Also! Kukoc wouldn't play that badly against the worst teams in the league. Now would he?
Me: No
Cousin Vin: Exactly. Jordan quit
Me:OHHHHH. Now I get it!
Cousin Vin:
Right, because I said exactly that.
That's worse than Nancy Grace, Justin.
Me:
Of course you did say EXACTLY that, but you more less said that.
I simplified today's convo with a most basic example that we all can understand.
It had to be done to illustrate your “arguments.”
I don't/didn't watch Nancy Grace, but I don't have to watch her. She quit!
Cousin Vin:
Nothing to do with previous e-mail, but 2008 NBA Finals Game 6. When Lakers realized it was out of reach, did they pack it in? Or was that an anomalous game?
Again, I will reply to your previous e-mail.
Me:
Everyone says they packed it in. So, it must be true...
No need to reply, Cousin Vin. You've said enough. I'm gonna leave for Stuyvesant Town now, the apartment complex, not the girl you heard about on the green line.
I'll format our back and forth today, and post it on my blog tonight. It was fun. Guarantee people will like it. I'll holla homie. I sent you an invite for NYE last night.
Cousin Vin:
Biased e-mails. I'll reply to your gmail to show you the error of your ways. If you're not too stubborn to see a different viewpoint, or mangle the entire argument.
Did you watch game 6?
Me:
Of course I watched game 6. It was down right ugly. And the Celts blitzed them. I am always hesitant to say what is going on in someone else's head. I don't disagree that it is possible that someone can quit, but the contrary is equally possible.
Did the Chicago Bulls quit last week? They were up 35 and lost in regulation at home (I think it was at home).
I won't change the emails at all. I'll copy and paste verbatim, the most I'll do is correct spelling. Gotta be worried when you say something is biased when it's verbatim with all context.
Sportynation, what do you all think? What is your opinion on today's exchange? Stay classy, challenge conventional wisdom, identify the importance of nuance, and most importantly think.
This is my Minority Report.
